Transcript

[0:00] Like that. The most classic example. And every teacher this will resonate with every teacher is two kids are talking in class and a teacher tells them, guys, stop talking. And a kid will look you dead in your eye and say, I wasn't talking. And they will lie about the thing that they know is true and that everyone in the room knows is true.

[0:18] Music.

[0:29] Welcome to this week's episode of Teaching Keating. It is freezing today. Yeah. Hence the sweater in. It's always the. In the time of year that we're filming this. It's always. It's always cold. This end of, like, end of season. Yes. Until it's hot. But there's no in between. I know your least favorite time. My least favorite time in Colorado is when it's spring for everyone else. Yeah. And it's still cold here. False spring. We alternate between summer and winter. Uh, and then. But it's like the spring cold, so it's like spring heavy, wet snow, rain. And then it'll immediately be like, oh, my garden. It's 75. It sucks. I have a real like I have a real pity party about it. I want to be on the beach. I want to be surfing. Speaking of on the beach. Surfing. Oh, Segway. Great Segway. So bad, so bad. Uh, Molly and I have been watching 100 Foot Wave on HBO Max. It's good. And there's three seasons, and we just. You had watched the first season? I had watched the first season, I remembered nothing. Okay. This is I had never had any experience with it at all. I had never seen it. This is the gift of having a bad memory. I get to watch things over and over as though I'm seeing them for the first time, I guess so. And so the perks. Yeah. So we're watching 100 foot wave and, uh, it's it's interesting, incredibly captivating television for a lot of reasons. Docu series. It's really great. It's sort of just like the history of chasing the hundred foot. Sorry. Pause.

[1:56] Sorry. I'm so sorry. We're on the wrong episode. I, I why don't we just do this one? We're because I have she has the questions for why do people lie and I have that for that. Oh, geez. Dude, we're out of today. We're not on. I'm so sorry, I take two. I had a panic moment. I was like, oh, God, I'm sorry. That's that's on me, that's on me, that's on me. Sorry sorry sorry guys. Yes, yes. You have the questions for why do people I realize I was going to keep going, but I was like, oh, Kaylee's got the questions for you. Could have just read, we're doing this episode. We're good. Okay, okay. We're good. Okay. Yeah.

[2:36] All right, all right, take two and we're good this morning. Yeah, well we're good. Welcome to this week's episode of Teaching Keating. Hi, Momo. Uh, we're talking about, uh, let's talk about liars today. Um. Why do people lie? Yeah. Let's not liars. Lying. That's that's. Let's talk about liars. An aggressive intro. I mean, I think that we were talking about it because all of the like, we've had some issues with the children lately about not maybe telling, being fully transparent about some certain behaviors, mostly related with their phones and some other things. But it was interesting to me. We were talking about it this morning about like, why are they lying when there's really no incentive to like what is like at the core of it? And we and I think that we had some interesting thoughts. So I don't know, I'll be interested to hear what yours are. I don't know if we have any. Just just spoiler alert. I don't know if we have any interesting thoughts or solutions. Yeah, I like here's I do think there's a lot of behavioral and developmental stuff that goes along with lying and the age that kids are, however, totally. Here's the danger in doing a podcast like the one that we do. Sure. I never want it to be perceived as though like, hey, Molly and Western are doing a podcast on parenting because they think they have all the answers on parenting. I mean, I don't think any I don't think we know.

[3:52] I just, think if they would have listened to us for ten minutes, they know that we don't have the answers to mostly everything. No, but that's okay. Like, this is really just us processing. Sure, it's something that has come up for us in marriage and parenting and things that we care about. Sure. And this is one of those. And I and I do think there's a lot of parents out there who are just like, yeah, like, why do these mofos lie? Like, I we've we've told them like, hey, you can tell us the truth. Yeah. And yet kids will still lie. Uh, and I think ours, I think it's developmental because ours are. You know, they lie about stupid stuff. Not like anything. I think. Big stuff they tell us the truth about. I would hope that they do. That seems to be. That seems to be up to this point. Like. Yes, that seems their behaviors. That seems to track like they like big stuff. They're like, they don't like it. They want to. Yeah. You know, sort of unload, which I appreciate. They'll lie about little stuff, but they lie about dumb crap like, hey, all the time. Did you brush your teeth this morning? Yeah. Yeah, I know that you didn't. Yeah. No you didn't. I know that your teeth are wearing sweaters right now. Like, those things are aggressive.

[4:55] Like, I don't know, but it is interesting. It's an interesting sort of format of like, and it used to happen to me in my classroom all the time, like kids would lie about just dumb stuff. I think, I don't know, I have a lot of thoughts about why kids lie and why adults lie. Okay, so I'll be interested to hear what your feedback is because I really think it's deeper than like, oh, just tell the truth or oh, just don't lie, right? Like compulsively like behavior wise, they just, you know, there's a lot of path of least resistance. I feel like when it comes to kids, well, that's what it is. So let's let's nerd out for a second and then I want to ask you some questions. Right. Like so why why do people lie? There's interesting research around this because this is not an isolated sort of thing. Like people tell little white lies. People tell big giant lies. People lie to themselves. People lie to other people. Sure. Why do people lie? I think go ahead. Like all of the research will tell you, it is a defense mechanism against fear. They're afraid of retribution. They're afraid of ridicule. They're afraid of like, hey, if I'm honest about this, then it means this, this and this in terms of consequences. Like, it's a really, really simple it's very avoidant behavior, right? Like especially in kids like it's avoidant. And it's also a fear of like.

[6:08] Just being isolated. I would say like they just don't like they don't want to be isolated from, you know, being left out. So like if people know that that was the behavior, that was the choice.

[6:21] Then they're like, oh, I don't want people to know that about me. So I'm just going to lie that that's not true even though it is true. Right? Right. Like, oh, you took your friend. I mean, very minimal. Like you took your friend's pencil. No I didn't, yeah, but yes, you did. You know what I mean? Just like dumb stuff. Like, I don't want to be the one that took the thing that wasn't mine, because I know that's not the correct behavior in the class, even though I did it because I needed the pencil at the time. You know, it's just like dumb stuff. It makes no sense all the time. And, and and kids especially and adults to like will lie even though people know they're lying like that. The most classic example and every teacher this will resonate with every teacher is two kids are talking in class and a teacher tells them, guys, stop talking, and a kid will look you dead in your eye and say, I wasn't talking. Yeah, yeah. And they will lie about the thing that they know is true and that everyone in the room knows is true. It's so weird. Yeah. It's just it's like you just don't want to be caught out in the behavior, right? It's like a pure avoidance. I don't know, compulsive, but I think it fits avoidant. I think it fits with what you're talking about is like, kids don't want to be on an island. Sure. It's just like, oh, okay. Everyone else in the class was doing the thing according to the expectation. And now if I'm honest, and instead of saying like, I wasn't talking, if I if I say like, you know what, you're right. Like, sure, I was talking, I apologize, I'll do better. That's a mature that's a mature thing that they need to do.

[7:42] Right. Like that's that's pretty high. That's like a high gradient skill to be able to like, own your behavior in the moment. And a lot of times, like kids just don't they're not going to do that. They just don't have the maturity to be able to do it. They'll be like, you're right, sorry, you know, or but I also feel like I'll just keep talking about our own children, like.

[8:00] Sometimes, you know, we'll ask a question like, are you doing this thing? And one or the other will just be like, sure, sure, I did it because they just want to be moved on from the behavior. Yeah. So they just kind of own it to just be done with it, and they don't want to process it or move on with it at all. That's another I don't I think it's still out of avoidance. I think that part of it's our fault, okay. Because what they're doing in their brain, I think what they're doing in their brain in that moment, like the adult's fault or your fault, like as parents, you in our family. Okay.

[8:29] Sorry, I'm just trying to specify. Okay. But I don't think. I don't think this is unique to us. Okay? I think what they're doing in that moment is they're hedging and they're saying like, okay, like what is what is the least amount of of strife I'm gonna get in any moment if I, if I just say like, okay, yeah, I brush my teeth this morning and then they believe it, I get to move on with my day. Yeah. Just like, let's be done with it. But if I say no, I didn't brush my teeth this morning, like, okay, now this is going to be a conversation. It's going to be a conversation I've heard before. I'm not interested. I get it. And so, like, I think all of that is happening in like a microsecond. Totally. And I think that's I would say that was the majority of things in terms of like the lies, is that behavior right there. But I think that's where we need to get better and be like, well, you and I are both Micromanagers and oldest children, and we really sort of major in the minors about dumb things when we don't need to. I mean, look at our morning this morning. How do we stop that? I, um, anyone I do, anyone I do, anyone want to do want to stop that? Okay. Um. And we care about different stuff.

[9:37] I care about. I care about consistent behaviors in the morning because little things lead to big things. You don't care about any of that. Like prime example this morning. Like okay, so we're giving them and again this is on us. Good reflective moment of like we're giving them two different focuses. You're very focused outward and all the things they need to get done outside of the home. And I'm really focused things inward things like being on time like, hey, sure, we're picking other people up this morning for carpool. Like, dude, be on time. Yes. But also you're the kind of person and maybe this is the difference between men and women. It's like you can leave the house an utter shitstorm and pure chaos.

[10:15] Like you're not thinking about me in that moment. You're thinking about everything outwardly. So, like, it could be like a bomb went off and you're fine with it as long as you're on time, right? Like that's accurate. Yeah, and I don't. And I have a really hard time allowing that behavior outside of my house, because that's only going to get worse as our children grow. So like, that's not appropriate. But you can't hold on, okay? You can't leave. Just wanted to play some defense. I know you said what you need to say. I'm just saying, like, that's not an appropriate. Like you're not handling the business. You're not giving the illusion of responsibility. Like the illusion of you being on time is like everything else in my life is chaotic. But don't worry, I made it out the door on time, but somebody else has to deal with. That's not my perception. My perception is like, okay, like which? Which of these has the least number of negative consequences and stick with me.

[11:09] And I'm like, okay, if if we're all heading out the door and it's a disaster like that negatively impacts us, the four of us. But if we're heading out the door and we're late now, we've negatively impacted this person, this person, this person, this person. But that's that's your outward look versus your inward look versus like. [11:28] Okay, I'm and granted we're talking about lying, but like I'm talking about like negatively impacting like behavior. So like. So you're, you're looking outwardly at at all of these things that impact other people. But like those behaviors negatively impact our children and will continue to negatively impact them in their behavior in the future and their spouse, like the things that are the most immediately impactful. If you cannot handle cleaning up after yourself in your own room, it doesn't matter if you make it out the door on time. That's fair. It's all an illusion because you can't handle yourself internally, just like your business in the day to day. I do think there's validity in both of these things, which is like, okay, great, I'm glad they have both of us. Great. So let me ask you this question. Is lying a natural part of childhood development, or is it a thing that always needs immediate correction? Yes. Yes. To both. I think it's a it's a natural behavior. We all do it. It's a natural human behavior. However, if you are not managing those behaviors in the moment, then they become.

[12:33] Part of your personality. We all know people who are just like, straight, full of shit all the time. Yes, because their behaviors have come such where it's like made up lies, made up lies or made up whatever excuses or whatever right that is now detrimental to their relationships. But it's ingrained in their personality and ingrained in their behaviors. So much part of their nature. It's like it's become a habituated, habituated, it's almost reflexive. Right. And that's and that's a place I think a lot of kids get to where it's just like, like, okay, I've processed this in the way that we talked about just a second ago, but now it's just like, okay, now they're not processing and sort of like weighing pros and cons. Now it's just like, okay, this is a reflex. Yes. Like, let me just say the thing you want to hear. Exactly. And we've all had kids in our classrooms. And again, I do think it's really like deeply ingrained in kids natures because some kids want to please more than others. Some kids don't care about that at all. You know, I I'll just speak for myself like I was the type of kid like, I I'm not a pleaser, I don't care.

[13:35] So for me, I was avoidant in the sense of like, I don't want to have this conversation with you, so I'll just lie about whatever to get me out of this conversation. But not because I was uncomfortable having the conversation. It was like I just like there was no purpose in it, you know? Like, what's the point of this? Like, is there is there going to be any resolution? Is this going to get us to a different result? You know, like I was playing those things out in my brain really early on, and pretty quickly I was like, yeah, the juice isn't worth the squeeze. So the lie is is better than the ultimate outcome of like, telling the truth in this moment, right? If that makes sense. Right? Like, it was just like there was not there was not a better end result from telling the truth. So I just, like I didn't want to lie. I just deferred to it because it was it was a faster path to just like getting whatever done. Does that make sense? Where I feel like that's true for a lot of kids. However, there are also a lot of kids who just want to please. And so whatever it is that's gonna make you happy or or make you get them to the best result to please you, they're going to say that thing, I think, and I don't love that behavior because I think that's dangerous and.

[14:44] That's harder to root out of a nature because you just want to say the thing that's right. And so you're constantly guessing at what's right rather than trying to say the thing that is true, rather than developing your own discernment about what's right. And what's interesting is, I think so that needs to be and I think a lot quicker. I think a lot of parents have the same scenario we have at home or in their classrooms or whatever it may be like, or both. I think we have one of each, I think. I think we have a kid, one who lies from time to time because they're trying to avoid consequences. And I think we have another kid who lies because they just want to please us. Sure. And I'm angry about both of those things.

[15:23] Okay. Neither one is better because I just I do. It's hard to root out on both. Yeah. I want kids personalities, whether it's the kids we teach, whether the kids we coach, whether it's the kids we raise in our own house. Sure. I want them to trust that they can be honest with us. But my, my, my next question is like, have. Do we like what role do parents play in teaching their kids to lie? So I would say a lot there, I just would I just think kids are gonna try to they're gonna try to avoid consequences if they can. Right. Like so like that's just developmentally appropriate. Some are going to want to please more than others.

[16:02] And so I think that's intriguing. Here's what I think. As parents we just have to have them practice telling us the truth all the time. And in order for them to be comfortable doing it, we also have to model that, you know. And so I think we have to say like what I want, what I would like to be true in this moment is this. But what the actuality is, is this. And we just have to lay it all out there. Like as parents, a lot of the time, like we have to say the things that are true. We have to say the hard part out loud, and we have to show kids that, like, that's what you have to do all the time, because that's the nature of maturity. But also, if you're not saying what's true out loud all the time, then you get confused as a human being about like, oh, what is true is, is that the right thing? Is that the true case? Right? And if you're not saying it out loud, then you don't. Then you can't model it one, but you're having a hard time discerning it too. And then they're going to be more confused about it. Correct. Does that make sense. So I so I think like you have to call it out for yourself, which is a really hard high skill, super vulnerable, really hard, especially as the authority and the parent. And it's a dance because it's always like I have to say what's true in this moment, but it doesn't make me not the authority or it doesn't, you know, there's not doubt there.

[17:20] You know, and you don't need to have doubt as the kid, but we just need to call all of these things out for what is is actually happening right now in this situation. I think this is I think this is twofold. I think you've hit on the first one, and the first one is like, okay, do do parents or do adults teach kids how to lie? Number one. Yes. And what they model, which is what you just talked about. Like if you model what it looks like to tell either big lies or little white lies over and over and over, or you just model constantly pleasing whatever, you know, and the kids like, that's not that's the reality. I'm looking at this over here and you're saying this thing that's not a thing like, here's they do have a good temperature for the dirty little secret about kids. Kids are lie detectors themselves like they are lie detectors. And so if adults around them are lying to them, or they see them like they catch that, they do like we all the time we talk about kids all the time, like, oh, they think they're so clever. And kids are looking at us like, oh, adults think they're so clever. Like, they they get it, they see us. So number one, like the modeling part, uh, number two, I think it boils down to, you know, we've said this word a couple of times on the podcast already. Trust. Yeah.

[18:23] Uh, trust is believable behavior over time. And there are two ways you build trust. You tell someone you're going to do something and you do it. Or you tell something. You tell somebody, you're not going to do something and you don't. That's how you build it. Yeah. And here's how you break trust. You tell somebody you're going to do something and you don't, or tell them you're not going to do something. And you do. Yeah. And so like when we think about trust, like, yes.

[18:44] Like I think I think we and I think parents and I think adults teach kids to lie because we tell them things like, hey, you can tell us the truth, right? And then what happens is kids, when they do, kids will practice that. And then there's still a consequence for honesty, right. And so which is hard. Go ahead. So what they're telling us in that moment is like, okay, I, I trust that you're telling me I can tell you the truth, but what I don't trust is that if I tell you the truth, it's going to lead down a pathway of, fewer consequences or forgiveness or whatever it may be. But the reality is, and this is just like a mature skill that you're going to have to learn. I mean, that we all learn as you get older. Like the reality is there is consequences for telling the truth there. They're always there. Always are.

[19:33] Because just in the same way that there's consequences for lying. Yes. So like that, those two things they have to be comfortable with. Like there's just consequences for behavior, period. And that's the reality of life. And so you have to become accustomed to consequences for behaviors because that's reality. But also that doesn't remove you from saying what's true. And you have to practice like knowing that whatever the outcome is, you still have to practice like telling what's true, because that will get easier over time. And then you'll have better discernment, because then you'll be able to see it in others. You'll be able to see it in your relationships. You'll be able to see it in the world. You'll be able to see in all these other places. And the practice of being able to call out what's true and say it, no matter what the consequence is, like a mature behavior. Yes. Right. Like, I'll give you a perfect example. I had a really good friend in high school. I still have her. You know, life happens. So we're not as close as we used to be. But she would say to me, do you want to go?

[20:31] X, y, z. I don't know, and I would say sure. And then I would flake. And she finally called me on it one time and was like, why are you so flaky? It drives me insane. And I was like, listen, at the end of the day, I'm saying, what's true to you? So like when you ask me to do something, I am telling you what's true, which is like, yes, I would like to do it. That that's not a lie. I said what the struggle is for me. Like the time frame in getting to the thing that you're actually asking me to do and like, because I've said yes to all these other things because I actually would like to do those. Those are all still true, but I can't actually say yes to all these things and also accomplish them. And so you are my safest relationship. And because you're my safest relationship, I probably flake on you the most, not because I don't want to do the thing. So, like, I'm not trying to be flaky. That's so shitty. Like that has to feel terrible. It it did not to. Thank you very much for being honest. There's the truth, everyone. It is shitty. And it was shitty for me to say to her like, this is honest. I was trying, I mean, she she called me out on it. She asked me what it was, and I told her in the moment like, hey, so I've said yes to five other things before I get to you. It's not a lack of want on my part wanting to do all these things. It's a lack of time management in my ability to accomplish all these things in the time when I've said yes to you.

[21:53] So you and you're the safest person. So I'm the one who ends up flaking on you because that is the safest relationship. I'm most secure in that relationship. So I'm sorry. And that's really crappy. And I realize that that's annoying about myself and I. But that is the God's honest truth. Then I got better at saying, because of that relationship, I got better at saying like, you know.

[22:14] Again, pleasing. Like I don't care so much about pleasing, but I do actually want to spend time and do the things that people ask me to do. And like I care about these things. So I, I did say, you know, like I got to the point where it was like, would you like to do XYZ? And I would say, yes, I would. However, I have all these other things going on. Can we push it to another day? Can we do it a different time, or are you okay with us? Just like not doing it right now. But know that I'm thinking about you and I really care about you, and.

[22:44] And that is the truth. Yes, but I don't have the bandwidth to say yes to all the things that you would like to relationally at this point. And that's just kind of where we are, because that's where we are in our life. I mean, and that was a way higher level skill, but that's like way beyond. So I hope the kids get there at some point in your classroom.

[23:00] I know, I know, we did a podcast on adult friendships, but I'll tell you what. Like, I think a lot of adult friendships are suffering. From what exactly what you're talking about. Sure. Which is like, hey, I'm going to tell you. Yes, sure. Because I love and care about you. And also, I'm so overextended right now with all the stuff that we all have going on in our lives, like, and that was I mean, that was like late high school into college. I mean, that was a long standing relationship. Like, we had been friends all of high school, and I don't feel like she called me out about it probably till college, like early college, but really at the end of the day, and that was when we had different time, like we were at different schools.

[23:32] You know, and she was like, why are you saying yes to all this crap at Christmas when you've said yes to me? And, and so I really had to have a hard look and to have a hard conversation in that moment about like, hey, I'm not lying to you. I'm really not. I would actually, in my heart of hearts like this to be true. It's just not at this moment. And I have to call that out too. But it is a hard skill. It's a really hard skill, and you have to be really secure in your relationships to be able to be honest with people. Totally. Here's another thing that we haven't talked about. You have to trust. There's that word again, right, that those relationships are strong enough, that you can be honest and people are going to take that honesty and be forgiving. And yeah, like and I would say like, I think I'm an honest person, but there are definitely moments in my life where I have lied all the time, and I don't want to lie. It depends on the relationship too. This is going to be like maybe a little too, too, too, uh, too much information, but I want to be able to share it. Inappropriate. Like like I would always be more honest with my dad than I would with my mom. I'd never want to lie to either one of them, and I would tell them the most true things that I possibly could. My mom is more fragile than my dad.

[24:36] Period. And so I would tell her things not because I want to lie about them. I was like, oh, you're not in a place to be able to hear this at this point, right? And I want to be able to be honest with you, but I can't because you can't hear this from me right now. You're not in a place to be able to receive it. And I think that's sort of a skill that maybe kids don't know that they have, but maybe that's a feeling that they have in those moments for sure, where they can't really label it as that, but they, they're like, oh, I have a lot of heavy stuff to tell. And I don't know if the adult, whoever is around me, whether my teacher or my parents, has the capacity to receive what I have to tell at this point. Well, that's true and that's it is. But I would say that's a real that's a thing that happens. I would say more often than I would like to admit. I know, yeah. And, and developmentally. And I'm sure it happens in our house, too. I'm sure it does. I'm sure Mom and dad are in a place to be able to hear this or receive what I have to say at this point. Here's my hope. And then I want to move on to our next segment. Sure. Uh, my hope is that at least my hope is that both of our children are at least being truthful to one of us. I hope so, even though they think the other one might be too fragile to hear the thing. Mhm.

[25:45] Yeah. It's really hard. And the adults I mean this is a good question to ask because we gotta, we gotta talk to them about this. Um okay. We've got, Not easy. We've got some homework. Uh, before we close out the podcast here, I want to try a new segment. He said. She said, okay, we're still. We're still working on. Yeah, you're gonna love that. Uh, here's what's about to happen. Katie's gonna ask us a handful of questions. Great. Um, and this is. We're just going to answer them newlywed game style. Molly doesn't know what these questions are. Do you have both? I don't know where yours is, I don't know. Did you put it under your chair? Yeah.

[26:20] So Katie is gonna ask us some questions. We have not seen these questions. Uh, they are in the theme of lying and truth and trust and all of the good stuff. Molly. And I don't know what the questions are. Uh, she's gonna ask them, we're gonna answer them, and then we're going to show and reveal at the same time to see how well we don't know each other. You need to write really legibly. I will write legibly. Okay? You need to write large. I'll try. Okay. I mean, hopefully everyone can read my. All right, let's get after it. Here we go. Okay. Are you ready? Yes. Let's do it. No we're not. I don't know if we are. We're gonna do it. Yeah, yeah. All right. First question. Who is more likely to tell a little white lie to get out of a social event? Oh, out of a social event.

[27:06] Okay, this is really good.

[27:09] But I don't know if it's going to be true or not. We'll see. And we're going to tell you. All right. Let's reveal in three, two, one. Uh, 100% chance. You 100%. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah I am yeah I all the time you out of social events. You were just talking about like. Oh you know like all flake. Yeah. And it was just like yeah I'll, I'll, I won't, I won't flake because I don't like to be flaky. Sure. Um, but I also don't love social events. No you don't. Um, you actually, this is funny because I was going to say an addendum like you, actually, I think you'll try to say something that is probably the most true. Like as an excuse to get out of it. Like you'll try to find something true to align with. Yes. Why you actually need to get out of the social event. Although it'll just like I'll be like, this is BS all the time, but you'll try to make it as true as possible, like a like an actual legit thing. Yes. To be able to get out of it. Yes. Very rarely do you. Do you actually like succeed? No. Making it legit because I'm also the Larry David of social events. I'll say yes to things and then immediately, immediately will regret having said yes to the thing. Okay, here we go. A lot of so far. So far, so good. Okay, good. We got a point. This is great. Good. Kaylee, what do you got? All right. What's the most common lie? Parents tell their kids that you both secretly agree with? Ooh. What's the most common lie that parents tell their kids that we both secretly agree with? Oh, I've got one.

[28:39] I don't know, uh.

[28:45] Oh, I'm dying to know what your answer is to this one. No, I don't, because I don't know if I can't be this specific. Okay. All right. Ready? All right. Ready. Three. Two. One. You'll you'll be okay. Yeah. I have Santa.

[28:58] I'm thinking I went way lower gradient than you did. That's why, you know, like, that's how our brains work. Like, I'm always, like, super in there. Here's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking, like, when you fall down on the playground like you're okay. Oh, you know, like you're fine. Even though you was like, oh, did you actually twist your ankle or you're really hurt? I actually think that's. I actually think that's an okay lie.

[29:18] Like what? I'm like, kids fall down like, hey, you're gonna be okay. Like, there are times when they might not be okay. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. I'm just thinking of one. Like our daughter, like, twisted her ankle at dance, and we're like, you're okay. And she actually broke it, and she actually, she wasn't okay. She, like, walked on it for a day. But it is true. She's really. She was gonna be okay. Yes. Theoretically, in the future they will be. But also, I don't know, that can get kind of dicey if you don't take it seriously. Also, also, we should have said, like if you're listening, if you're listening to your kids or listening with your kids in the car or something. I'm so sorry. Right. But also, you can't feed their, like, drama all the time too. I'll just say, you know, like, Everett has a couple friends and some of them tend to be have a flair for the dramatic when it comes to injuries. And so it's hard to tell. Yes. All the time. They need to be told more. You're gonna be. Yeah. And I feel like, had that child been told, like, you're probably good, but let's check it out. You know, like, they take it a little too seriously, and then this child thinks, like, you know, their legs gonna fall off all the time. All the time? Yeah. Anyway, so it's hard. It gets dicey. You never know. All right, more questions. All right. Who is more likely to say I'm fine when they're clearly not and mean the opposite?

[30:29] Oh, that's a really good question. Okay. Three. Two. One. Yay! Without a doubt. Without a doubt. I mean, I didn't think we were gonna get, like, really good at these, but we're pretty good. Nobody. Yeah. No. Sorry. No. Husband who is listening right now is is surprised by this. No I don't. We've talked about this before. I really don't understand the whole, like, um. Hey, is everything okay? I'm fine. I actually don't ever really say I'm fine. I say I'm good, but I'm good means I'm not ready to talk about it with you right now. You need to give me more space. Don't ask me. Like, why are you asking me right now? If you wonder why you're getting your head bit off. I would prefer the honesty of that. No, it's just. That's not always okay. This is an important moment where I'm, like, not trying to lie, but I'm also not trying to give you a dissertation about why this is the inappropriate moment to ask me this really intense question that I don't have time to answer. Really intense. That's the answer. Are you okay? Yeah. I'm good. So my kids asked me, so this is a this is a thing because Charlotte has started asking me like, are you okay?

[31:39] But it's totally because it's an accusation. Yeah. Which she already knows the answer to. Just like you do. Like, clearly I'm not. But do you want the full on monologue about why that's not true right now? No you don't. So don't even ask me in the moment. Just don't ask me if I'm okay. That's why I. That is true. Because when I'm actually asking. Yes, I know, I'm not asking. Asking. I'm. Well, I am asking. Are you okay? But what I'm really asking is like, no, you're not, boy. You're being a real nightmare right now. So what's this all about? So is she okay, mom? You're so extra right now. Okay, great. Are you okay? We're both lying to each other. No. I'm not. But why are you asking me right before I drop you off a question? Kaylee. Sorry. Okay. Who's better at spotting a lie? Especially when the kids are involved. Ooh. Who's better at spotting a lie? Especially when the kids are involved.

[32:36] I don't know if you can see my answer. Three. Two. One. Okay. Yeah, I just I think it's. Yeah. Sorry that one hurt me to write. Sorry. I'm sorry. That one hurt me. I just. But if I'm being honest. If I'm being truthful with myself and not lying to myself. Good job. I appreciate that. You are better. Yeah. Especially with Charlotte. Our daughter never lies. She's the greatest person ever. She's the sweetest. She lied to you last night. She would never lie to me. You literally caught her in a lie, and she was like. Yeah, but like. And then. And then she was. But it was you and not me. And so she knew, like, I'm not gonna get a lot of trouble for this. There have also been so many times where you've said, like, hey, she's lying to you and I'm lying to your face. Gasp! How dare you think? And I'm like, she is running you. Okay, I gotta get better at that. Okay. All right. Okay. We're all working. Oh, what a terrible idea this segment was. It's good. It's amazing. Okay. Who's more likely to exaggerate a story when telling it to friends or family?

[33:40] I write it one. Hundred percent. All the time. All the time. It's because I. I love anyone seen the podcast? Have you heard him tell a story? I love a good story. Oh, I love a good story. And I'm. I'm not good to let a little thing like facts and details know every story that I tell. Real big fish over here. Every story that I tell is a version of truth. But I'll tell you what. Like if you're going to tell a good story doing it now, the more imaginative and wonderful it can be. Like you are a great storyteller. I am. You are. I am. Yeah. I love I love a good story. I know you do, but sometimes, sometimes we just need to get to the point. Here's what's so frustrating. I'll be telling a story, and Molly will get so caught up in a minuscule detail of the story like, no, it wasn't 2009. It was 2010. Because I liked the truth, I don't care. I know that is a detail that has no material impact on the story. It actually does if it's factual and it's what happened. So I do this is where I am, really. This is where you and I see it differently. I really like the I think lying and imaginative storytelling are not the same things. They are okay.

[34:57] But you know. Potato, potato. Next question. Uh, potato. Awesome. Potato. Potato and scalloped potato. Moving on with the question. You want like a dry baked potato? No, I want a scalloped potato. What it is. I don't want a potato. And versus an orange, I just. If it's a potato, it is kind of, though. Never. Yes, all the time. Okay. Anyway. Sorry, Kaylee. No worries. How many more questions do we have? Yeah, two more questions. Okay, two more questions. We got it. Okay. What's one lie you've told each other that you can laugh about now? Oh, gosh. All the time. Oh.

[35:37] I'm worried about how quickly you're writing down your answer. What's one lie? Oh my God. That we've told each other. Yeah. That we can laugh about now. I mean, I have one for you, but go ahead. Okay. Hold on. I'll jot one down. But I'm curious. I'm curious what yours is. Oh. You're not. You're gonna know it. Exactly. I mean, when when you read it. Okay. Three. Two. One show. Sorry. Can you read it? I didn't spend that much. Yeah, I didn't spend that much. That's a lie that I tell you all the time. Yes, you do tell me that. But that's a protective lie. Like I was saying to my mom, like you're not in a place to receive. I'm calling bullshit. No monetary amount that I spent that is protective for you. Not for me. Protective for both of us. I know that you spent it. We have a joint account. We have joint bank accounts that you know that I spent every penny goes ask. You're not in the place to hear it. You don't want to hear it. You don't want to hear it. So I'd rather just be like, I already know it. Spend that much? No you don't. You look at it after the fact and then you'll be mad. But it's okay for me to tell you in the moment. I just need to pad it a little bit, because you just really have a hard time receiving that. Oh, boy. You do. Okay. Okay. Okay. Sorry. What was yours? I like snuggling on the couch.

[36:59] I really don't. I don't. We have, we got we got two couches now in our living room. I don't think you ever. I don't think that that's. Here's the thing. Because I like I like snuggling with you. I like to be close to you. Um, but at night, like when we're watching something funny, I used to be like, yeah, do you want to snuggle on the couch? And then we would start snuggling on the couch and I'm like, oh my God, you're. But you asked the question. You are 1000°F. Really funny, because I love you and I want to be close to you. But when we're like watching, like a game or something on the couch, I'm just like, oh, can you? That's how I feel about the money. I love you, and I want to tell you the truth. Okay. What did you think I was going to write? I thought you were going to write something around. Like how when people like, you're remembering people's names, or you remember people's stories and you are like, yeah, that totally happened. You never remember. Oh, that's true. You lie about that all the time. You're like, hey, do you remember when I told you about. And I was like, you're like, yeah, all the time. And I was like, no, I have not a clue. You don't have a clue. And that happens probably 95% of the time. Yeah. You lie about that all the time. Okay. Last question, last question. We got it. All right. Actually, there's two more questions. Okay? Two more. That's great. If one's better than the other. Let's go. All right. Yeah, yeah. All right. When it comes to lying to protect someone's feelings, who in our family. In your family does it more often? Are we talking about all four of us, or are we talking about just two of us? All four of us. Let's go. All four of us.

[38:16] 321 show. I said ev you. Okay, that's probably fair. Um, yeah. The person who lies to protect other people's feelings is Everett. Yeah, because he's first. He has such a sweet heart. He does? Um. And he doesn't want to hurt anyone? No. Uh, he probably learns that from me. Yes. Yeah. Direct result. Shar and I, you know, no stone cold. You and Charlotte, I wish would lie a little bit more to protect our feelings. It doesn't always have to be as honest as the two of you. Make it. I said that to her in the car I was giving her. I was dropping off the other day and she said something. She was giving me a story about how she said something to one of her friends, and I was like, whoa, that was a little harsh. And she was like, well, it's the truth. And I go, okay, you totally get that from me. Very fair. But sometimes that's really hard to hear. Maybe you should like, you know, say it just like, try to be, like, a little kinder with your words because that was so hard. She's like, well, what did she want? Does she want me to tell her the truth? Yeah. She was like, I asked her, do you want me to lie to you? And she said, no, I want the truth. And she's like, well, you got it. I was like, you. You sharpened that stick. I know, and I had a moment where I was like, whoa! And it pokes all of us now I know I came down, I came down the stairs the other day, and I was wearing a pair of shorts that were like, a little more medium than I, than I typically wear. And I came down and my daughter looks at me and goes, you don't have the legs for those. Okay.

[39:40] I didn't even know this happened, but that's probably true. I was like, oh, okay, I'll go back. And change also changed immediately. All right, last question. Let's go do it. Honesty. Some of us more than others. All right. Last question. If lying burned calories, who would be the skinniest in the house? Oh, if lying burned calories, who would be the skinniest in the house? I don't I don't know, because I'm really. Yeah. Okay. Three. Two. One. Go. Are.

[40:11] We said to. I said due to. Okay. We need some clarity here. No. Because here's here's here's my clarity. We just said Everett lies the most. Here's avoid feelings. Here's the clarity that I'm giving Everett lies. You don't. You and Charlotte don't lie to protect anyone's feelings. Um. But you, you and Charlotte will lie most when it's advantageous to the two of you. Oh, that's funny, I would say her. I say I am lying. Okay. Hold on. I would say I lie most for avoidance of hurt. Right. Like I'm I am I'm not trying to protect people's feelings, but I realize I'm so harsh and mean sometimes. It's the same thing I was saying about my mom. Like, ooh, I'm. I'm not in a place to, like, say that really nicely. So I just need to, like, I need to shut this down right now with some sort of line, because otherwise I'm gonna be too hard to lie in that moment. You just won't say it. Okay. That's true. And that's. But again, that's. I try not to lie. So you're right. I'm. I'm avoidant. Like I avoid. Yes. Yeah, but if it's something like spending money, you'll lie about that because it protects you from from me being angry in that moment. I mean, you're, you're I, I you're pretty consistent about the things you get heated about. So I am avoidant when it comes to making you heated.

[41:35] No, you are not. I mean, you're avoided about avoiding about making me heated about things that have to do with you. Sure. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Potato potahto. All right. But. Yeah. Great. Great. All right. All right. I like that. Okay. Well, let's hope like, let's do it again. Moving in the right directions about, like, not getting them to lie or we're, you know, I mean, God, let's hope so. I don't know, and I really want to entice them in, like, more positive behaviors. But I don't know how you do that. Like, even if you get less and less trouble when you lie, you're still some amount of trouble because there was a lie. You know, I don't know, I just I don't know how to entice kids to tell the truth or adults, you know, to avoid the consequences. Because at the end of the day, like, you're just gonna be mad about money, which I'm not gonna avoid those consequences. I'm gonna check our bank account as soon as this podcast is over. I'm sure you will. Uh, that'll do it for this week's episode of teaching Keating. As always, catch us anywhere you listen to podcasts, find us on YouTube. Um. Uh, you can find me, um, at home. I know this next week. I know, really exciting. Super excited about it. Molly, where can we find you? You're gonna find me in the car getting ready. Because I know we talked about this last time, but Everett's going to be driving, so I'll be in the passenger seat because he needs his hours before he gets his license this summer. So we're just really going to do that. So say your prayers to him about how good of a job he's doing. Uh, we'll see you guys, uh, next week.

[42:57] Music.